Thursday, September 30, 2004

Debate Facts 2 and 3

Breaking Debate Fact: Kerry Said It

SENATOR KERRY: “The President and I have always agreed on that, and from the beginning, I did vote to give the authority because I thought Saddam Hussein was a threat.” (Sen. John Kerry, First Presidential Debate, Miami, FL, 9/30/04)

Breaking Debate Fact: Kerry Said President Has Lost Support Among Military Officials

Kerry's False Statement:
In response to question .2 John Kerry said the President has lost support among military officials because of his misjudgments in Iraq.

The Real Record:
FACT: The President Has Been Endorsed By Over 250 Flag Officers.

Duane H Cassidy General, USAF (Ret.)
Ponte Vedra, FL

James E Dalton General, USAF (Ret.)
Palos Verdes, CA

John K Davis General, USMC (Ret.)
San Clemente, CA

John R Deane General, USA (Ret.)
Gouldsboro, ME

Russell E Dougherty General, USAF (Ret.)
Arlington, VA

Leon A Edney Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Coronado, CA

Ronald R Fogleman General, USAF (Ret.)
Durango, CO

Sylvester R Foley Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Falmouth, MA

Ronald J Hays Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Honolulu, HI

Thomas B Hayward Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Seattle, WA

Robert J Kelly Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Columbia, MD

Robert C Kingston General, USA (Ret.)
Alexandria, VA

George ER Kinnear Admiral, USN (Ret.)
York Harbor, ME

Frederick J Kroesen General, USA (Ret.)
Alexandria, VA

James A Lyons Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Alexandria, VA

Henry H Mauz Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Pebble Beach, CA

William G Moore General, USAF (Ret.)
Franklin, TN

John W Pauly General, USAF (Ret.)
McLean, VA

Leighton W Smith Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Pinehurst, NC

Carl W Stiner General, USA (Ret.)
Lafollette, TN

Steven A White Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Charlottesville, VA

Teddy G Allen Lieutenant General, USA (Ret.)
Burke, VA

Albert J Baciocco Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Mount Pleasant, SC

Charles W Bagnal Lieutenant General, USA (Ret.)
Columbia, SC

Clyde R Bell Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Omaha, NE

Harold W Blot Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret.)
New Bern, NC

James F Calvert Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
St. Michaels, MD

Kent J Carroll Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Pinehurst, NC

Albert P Clark Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Colorado Springs, CO

Edward W Clexton Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Virginia Beach, VA

John B Conaway Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Bethany Beach, DE

Charles G Cooper Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret.)
Falls Church, VA

George W Davis Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Columbia, SC

William A Dougherty Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Arlington, VA

Leo J Dulacki Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret.)
Sun City, AZ

William H Ginn Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Alexandria, VA

Charles H Griffiths Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Ocean City, MD

Robert E Hails Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Macon, GA

Patrick J Hannifin Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Solana Beach, CA

Peter M Hekman Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.
San Diego, CA

William D Houser Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Arlington, VA

John I Hudson Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret.)
Yuma, AZ

John E Jackson Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
St. Louis, MO

James H Johnson Jr. Lieutenant General, USA (Ret.)
University Park, FL

Thomas J Keck Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Tuscon, AZ

Robert P Keller Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret.)
Penscaola, FL

Harold M Koenig Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
San Diego, CA

Howard W Leaf Lieutenant General, USAF (Ret.)
Brandywine, MD

See Full List


At April 21, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill Ginn should be ashamed of himself for sending the e-mail around the net about Obama's comments regarding the Anthem. I have no doubt he knows Obama never made those comments and they were manufactured for a comic spoof. Ginn is about the farthest thing from an American Patriot there is and I will not show him the respect of calling him by his military rank when he disgraces the spirit of the Constitution in such a vile way. If you're a bigot, be honest and say you're a bigot, but stop spreading lies as if they were the truth. These are Nazi tactics. You disgust me!

At May 16, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Blogger Michael Novogradac - Biker said...

SO, the commentor above feels it's OK for an elected official to not wear an America n flag pin and have a lame excuse for it (fact, no fiction) and have the same man (Obama) stand with his hands at his side while the national anthem is playing (fact, while other candidates acted appropriately).

At May 22, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bush didn't put hsi hand over his heart
mcCain / Cheney /Bush / Huckabee / don't always wear pins, and, since when did wearing a pin equal patriotism. If anything it is the symbol of someone who wants others to think they are patriots.

Go look at the number of Repubs who have betrayed the US and violated their oath of office.

At May 29, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Blogger Bill said...

I am totally baffled by the anonymous comment about my "sending the e-mail around the net" as I absolutely did NOT. I integrated the Air Force leadership school, served with and lifetime friends of great Tuskeegee airmen who ALL know I am not a "bigot". Some one used my name wrongly for this article and you did not have the guts to identify yourself. For shame!.

At June 5, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Blogger Rich said...

Bill Ginn, Thanks for your service to our country....

At June 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Anonymous R Ginn Col USAF (ret) said...

The first commentator re:Gen Ginn's remarks is surely the symbol of stand up bravery we all revere. Blather about "rank", using "Nazi"
as if he/she even knew what the word meant,and waving "bigot" and "lies" about so bravely. I know something of Gen Ginn's patriotism and know that the fool above couldn't carry the General's briefcase.

At June 26, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Anonymous ray gibbons said...

r. ginn usaf ret. - Just because someone wears a uniform doesn't give them license to smear and spread lies. What's the deal with pins anyway? So if Obama wore a pin on each lapel 24/7, his detractors would suddenly become ardent supporters? It's someones actions that shows patriotism. The argument defies logic.

At June 26, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Anonymous thetruth said...

Don't you do any research?

At July 2, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spread lies on the internet and aome people accept it as truth. Take sentences out of context and they are gospel. What a bunch of crap. Republicans are running scared to spread this garbage. I can't believe many people are fooled by this ignorant stuff. All they have to do is really look at the facts. It's as bad as WMD that that idiot Bush and his cronies cooked up as an excuse to get into Iraq and take charge of the oil fields there.

At October 11, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

While the quotes are false the descriptions are fact

Barack does not salute the flag as he is supposed to... it is expected of every citizen, so why should he be different? Yes Obama represents change... but you can't just go change everything and not be prepared for the consequences

I'm not saying not saluting the flag makes you a bad person I say it sets up a bad image... what kind of leader doesn't feel the need to show a symbol of the nation the same respect as every other citizen.

I vote McCain because I'm worried about what change will do later on down the road, America in it's situation right now is just not ready for change

At October 12, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Blogger Chip said...

Well, if General Bill Ginn did not send around an e-mail, he should be informed that someone is using his name to post the following:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:48:04 -0400, 'LTG Bill Ginn' USAF ret. forwarded the following:

Hot on the heels of his explanation for why he no longer wears a flag pin, presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama was forced to explain why he
doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.

The e-mail continues with a citation of the United States Code, Title 36 and then with a Obama "quote." The latter is a lie so obvious that not even yellow sheet journalists like Hannity and Colmes dared to repeat it. The latter two morons did, however, attempt to start a little fire over this spurious story. Evidently, even they were unable to tell such a lie with a straight face and they had to drop it.

So, if General Bill Ginn is not responsible for that e-mail, he is being victimized. If, on the other hand, he is responsible for propagating lies, then he has besmirched his otherwise clearly distinguished and honorable career. Unfortunately, in the world of the internet, it is sometimes impossible to know if a person actually wrote a piece or their name is being used. I hope and prefer to believe that the hateful and deceiving e-mail sent his name is an instance of the latter.

As I wrote to my mother in response to that e-mail when it was sent to her: the people who are her collection of friends, mostly retired career military as was my father, justly proud of their patriotism, nevertheless are evidently not patriotic enough or wise enough to discover if they are, in fact, being seduced by people who have AS A POINT OF FACT taken our civil liberties from us time and time again. The Republican party and its leaders have succeeded in making us less than who we are as a people—less fair, less free, less just, less thoughtful, far more greedy. And this has been done largely by wrapping their own unreserved and unflagging complicity with the worst practices of the corporate world with an American flag and then accusing of people who have a different vision than they do of being seditious or treasonous. And the fact that, once again in this election, McCain and company find they can only succeed by manufacturing lies and assassinating the character of a United States Senator pretty much proves my point. It is much easier to tell lies or distort the truth about a candidate's character than it is to explain how a continuation of the course on which we have been led can be good for any of us.

Bottom line: rather than simply swallow whatever pap is pushed your way, check the facts. Then acknowledge that people of good will may, in fact, disagree with your judgment about who might be the best choice for president and vice-president without being bigots or unpatriotic on the one hand, or neo-facists on the other. It could be that we are simply Americans who disagree--but who will still have to live together and figure out ways that, together, we can continue to serve the country we love.

Meanwhile, in these last weeks before the election, I will do everything within my power to persuade others to join me in voting for Barak Obama and Joe Biden.

I am a liberal democrat. I am patriot. And I am totally tired of the sort nonsense we are hearing from people who simply repeat lies and rumors as truth.

At October 13, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since when is it expected that you put your hand over your heart for the National Anthem? As far as I know the only expectation is to stand. As for the Pleadge of Allegiance, there are many religious groups and others who are very patriotic but do not stand for the Pledge nor place their hands over their heart. This nonsense is just one more way the cowardly Repbulicans are trying to make everyone but their beknighted few unpatriotic and unAmerican. Next time you go to a game and the National Anthem is played look around you and see how many people are 'unAmerican" and "unpatriotic".

At October 14, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem represents our country's cultural and spiritual DNA, as well as placing your hand over your heart. For Obama to clearly dismiss that and having his supporters play that down is totally un-american. For all of America's imperfections it is still our country and the best nation in the world than many despots and tyrannical dictators that hate this country. Obama has clearly shown disdain and disrespect for traditional values and has exposed himself as a left wing radical with socialist agenda under the guise of Christianity. He is a wolf disguised in sheep's clothing - this guy is flying under the radar with his crafty rhetoric and charismatic personality. I don't buy the racist propaganda his supporters are spewing out.

In fact, many of our country's enemies support him from Chavez in Venezuela, Castro in Cuba, that muslim guy running for Nigeria's president, and that terrorist from Iran. Sorry his muslim background and shady connections does not qualify him for the highest office in the land.

At October 14, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Blogger Chip said...

It is really hard to know how to respond to a comment such as the last one by "Anonymous." Typical of much political discourse in recent years, Anonymous simply asserts a slanderous lie as fact (e.g. Obama clearly dismisses the Pledge of Allegiance) and then goes on to build a straw case. Google the following: "obama pledge of allegiance." IF you bother to do so, you would see that you are a victim of a ridiculous hoax. Alternatively, you might be a right wing ideologue who believes that any and all lies and distortions are fine as long as your candidate wins the day.

I believe that, should McCain win the presidency based on the tissue of lies such as Anonymous has forwarded, then something precious about our country will have died.

Once again, people, check the facts before you propagate lies. If you identify yourself as a Christian, you have a particular responsibility not to slander.

At October 19, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Blogger docstutz said...

In reply to Chip:
Gen. Ginn did respond the "Meet the Press' e-mail. On May 29th he stated that he did not send out that e-mail. It was right here on Google.
It sounds like you believe that its alright for Liberals such as yourself to lie and slander someone but not okay for Christians. I take it that you are not a Christian,

At October 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Blogger Chip said...

I am, in fact, a Christian and a member of the clergy. And "docstuz" should learn to read--or at least to read carefully.

At October 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is it that our country comes together and shows our patriotism in all its glory in times of disaster, like 9/11-- and then turns around in drastic separation during elections? Yes we are making a 'huge' decision on who our next leader will be, but then again, relative to what this country is founded on, we as citizens are our own leaders.

The government is supposed to be small and organize and help, but we shouldn't have to be bailed out by our own government. We should really blame ourselves for what is happening to this country, because we are the ones who have decided what direction this country goes in. Stop blaming others and start taking responsibility for what our country does. USA stands for UNITED states of America, not government. Our founding fathers came to America to escape from a government of too much power.

Enough of my rambling, I will get to my point. Whatever the outcome of this election is, I am scared. I am a college student and I am terrified of where this country will be when I graduate next year. How much will I have to pay for grad school?

I am a republican, but I'd rather just label myself as an American. I am a supporter of both candidates for different reasons, but I disagree on many points. For this particular election I am voting McCain. I am voting for him, not only because I am republican, but I also believe that his policies are better for this point in American history. Right now, I think, is not the right time for Obama to be running. I'd love to see all the change that he is promising, but 1) I don't think we have the resources without taxing a lot higher, and 2) because there needs to be a transition phase. We can't just stop using gas and oil to turn to alternative energy sources. It takes time to implement that sort of change. I am a physics major,and I know how lengthy research & development can be. That's why energy independence for this country is key, but we need to use the resource that are available right now, not resources that will be available 4+ years from now.

My other point is in reference to this email that has been going around. I find it rather comical actually. Seeing what people can think of. Yes, it is a rather huge subject to cover. The question is: what if it were true? I generally don't believe chain emails, but my main concern is the possibilities behind these 'smears'. It's rather scary to think what might happen to this country if all of these stories were true.

I realize that it is generally not a good idea to make decisions based on 'if's, but because we, as a country, have made presidential elections into "the greatest decision we will ever make" we put ourselves in a position where we need to think about and weigh the possibilities of repercussions of who will be our president.

For all those who prefer Obama, I definitely agree that there needs to be change, but there also needs to be a middleman to that change to prep the road.

We also need to remember our American roots. I don't believe that the ideals of our founding fathers are outdated and only relevant to that point in history. I think we have strayed as a country and need to remember what this country means and what it means to be a citizen of this great nation of ours. We also need to remember that our nation is a great nation, and not just focus on its flaws. I am disappointed, but I am also grateful and proud to be an American. And if you are not proud to be part of this ideology that is the USA, at least show respect if you want to reap the rewards of this country, or move to another country that you would be more proud to be part of. I am not bashing, just stating that as a country, united we stand and divided we fall. So please, if you want this country to stand and succeed, please please support our country.

To all those troops, I am indebted greatly to all of the service that you have provided so I can live freely, and for that I thank you. I hope to join your ranks someday.

This is a rather long post, but I believe each word is necessary. No matter the outcome of this election, the future of this country is in our hands, not our governments. We need to make change, not our government. If you are tired of being disappointed, get up and do something that you can be proud of. Yes, government does influence our abilities, but I believe we as a country can influence our government more than they can influence us. We need to remember that the government is at our service, not the other way around.

Again back to the issue of this email. Our flag and national anthem are the symbols of this country. So when you disrespect those symbols you are disrespecting each and every American citizen. As American citizens we have the right to not salute or show our respect to this country, if you have qualms with our government, by all means take your issues to them, but as Americans I ask that you show respect.

Thank you for reading, if you in fact did read. I know this was a short book, but thank you for reading it nonetheless.

God bless America

oh by the way, that is a request for God to bless us, not a statement that God only blesses Americans.

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